Is it possible for Astra Users to IM each other directly?

[fabieuse]

i mean with that new Astra ID will it be possible to chat without needing an extra account on AIM or whatever? If so, which protocoll is it based on? XMPP?

[ameoba]

Yes and it's a new protocol called "Astra". ;)

From this page (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/ap/index.php?area=astra):
Open protocol

The protocols used by Trillian Astra are open to any client developer wishing to interoperate with them. Protocol documentation will be published and maintained upon official release. Cerulean Studios is committed to maintaining and supporting interoperable networks.

[fabieuse]

But why not XMPP? I mean is there really the need for yet another IM Protocol? What does Astra do that XMPP couldn't?

[ameoba]

Originally posted by fabieuse
But why not XMPP? I mean is there really the need for yet another IM Protocol? What does Astra do that XMPP couldn't?

This has already been discussed somewhere (not sure where, not sure if it was public, not sure when, and not sure who said it) but the gist of it was that the developers have entire control over the direction of the protocol which isn't the case with XMPP. Astra goes beyond a protocol and if you're not experiencing it (which I don't think you are) then it's difficult to conceptualize.

[ameoba]

Originally posted by ameoba
This has already been discussed somewhere (not sure where, not sure if it was public, not sure when, and not sure who said it) but the gist of it was that the developers have entire control over the direction of the protocol which isn't the case with XMPP. Astra goes beyond a protocol and if you're not experiencing it (which I don't think you are) then it's difficult to conceptualize.

I just spoke with Scott about this. The information I was referring to was not public and would be far out of context here.

He gave me this information via IM (quoted with his permission):
We'll be continually evaluating the protocols of choice for the server product as well as federation possibilities as the project moves forward. XMPP was not chosen because it was not a viable choice for us when we started development, although times have since changed.

[stev02]

Your reply was very helpful Glenn. (l)

[ameoba]

Originally posted by stev02
Your reply was very helpful Glenn. (l)

Thanks... I think it's important early on in this public unveiling process to expose the reasons that certain decisions were made. Scott and Kevin didn't just blast forward with blinders on. They took time to examine what technology existed and made a decision based on what would be the best direction to take in order to satisfy their vision. Astra wasn't dreamed up over the summer... It's been on the boards for a long time, longer than most people would care to believe.

The commitment to the future of Trillian should be crystal clear to all doubters and naysayers.

[fabieuse]

We'll be continually evaluating the protocols of choice for the server product as well as federation possibilities as the project moves forward. XMPP was not chosen because it was not a viable choice for us when we started development, although times have since changed.
So XMPP federation is still possible in future releases (via gateway for example)? It would be too cool if Trillian users could chat with Google Talk, Live Journal (and so on) users without (necessarily) signing up for an extra account.

[ameoba]

Originally posted by fabieuse
So XMPP federation is still possible in future releases (via gateway for example)? It would be too cool if Trillian users could chat with Google Talk, Live Journal (and so on) users without (necessarily) signing up for an extra account.

Yes, exactly. This direction is infinitely flexible so, really, anything can happen. :)

[fabieuse]

okay, cool, so here's my feature request. ;)

[Pneumatic]

Originally posted by fabieuse
So XMPP federation is still possible in future releases (via gateway for example)? It would be too cool if Trillian users could chat with Google Talk, Live Journal (and so on) users without (necessarily) signing up for an extra account.

Interoperability is high on the list of things they would like to achieve and that's why they made the Astra protocol open to all.

[fabieuse]

Originally posted by Pneumatic
Interoperability is high on the list of things they would like to achieve and that's why they made the Astra protocol open to all.
Opening up the Astra protocol is a great step by the Trillian devs, but it doesn't automatically bring interoperability to existing protocols like XMPP. This has to be implemented serverside and this is what i'm asking for. Surely it could be implemented on the XMPP side aswell, but in my opinion it would make more sense to run an XMPP gateway on the Astra Server than the other way round.
Since most XMPP servers are open for s2s communication, that gateway could act in a way so that you don't have to sign up for a seperate account on a XMPP Server (like it is the case in existing Jabber -> AIM/MSN/Y!M gateways). That would be interoperability in it's actual meaning, not in a way where you have to sign up for an extra account for every service you want to chat with.

[tourbi]

From what I'm understanding from the conversation is that steps are being taken. Sometimes to achieve the goal, several steps have to be made instead of one giant leap. This is a huge step that has been taken, I would bet there will be a lot more to many goals and desires people have, including yours.

This is my observation, not speaking for anyone with CS or Trillian Astra in any way. Just my opinion and observation.