[FOR SUBMISSION] Astra forgets everything

[utherwayn]

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION
======================
All my contacts have a status of "Orphaned". I am unable to add new connections to an identity and Trillian registers that it has no connections.

EXPECTED RESULT
======================
Functional operation of trillian astra

ACTUAL RESULT
======================
Initially after first installation and logging into my astra account to get things started I entered in my account information and everything worked just fine. My account contacts downloaded for ICQ/Yahoo/MSN/AIM and I had plenty of conversations. At this point I logged off and the next day when I logged back on I was unable to connect to any services and all my contacts are shown as offline and orphaned.

REPRODUCIBLE
======================
Was the bug reproducible: Yes

TESTER DETAILS
======================
Build: 4.0.0.69
OS: Windows Vista
Date & Time: 01-21-2008
Astra ID (if applicable): utherwayn
Skin: standard
Plugins Enabled: ICQ, Yahoo, AIM, MSN

[DiamondNRG]

Did you install this as administrator? Are you running it that way too?

Sounds like a UAC problem.

[utherwayn]

I don't believe I installed it as administrator. I installed it as the primary account that I run as it's a completely fresh installation of vista even I just built this computer last night. The only other relevant things I can think of and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier is I had activated my astra account a long time ago, 7/6/07 to be exact and then I forget why but I stopped using it till I picked it up again in the past week.

I have uninstalled multiple times and reinstalled but things keep popping back up the same like it remembers everything. Is there a perhaps a procedure for purging any trillian information from an existing setup in vista?

[utherwayn]

It looks like my user account is flagged as an administrator, and I am using it the same way. Attempting again with UAC off. When trying to use my buddies.xml to restore my previous list when things were orphaned I was unable to access the directory at all through explorer even in an administrator enabled shell. So there is something strange going on with permissions. I am going to attempt to see what happens with UAC off now.

[DiamondNRG]

Just set Trillian to run as administrator.

You might need to delete your whole Trillian user directory first and start over and install it as Admin (which is not the same as just using a Vista account with admin privileges) and then set it to run that way.

If this is a fresh build I don't think this should have happened, but it seems quirky on some systems still.

[utherwayn]

Do I need to install it as administrator?

[DiamondNRG]

I would ... that way your files are stored in the right place, and not in the virtual store location which causes these problems.

[sharvell]

I have Vista with UAC turned off. After install and first run it works fine. I can setup accounts and login no probs. When I exit and restart all contacts are orphaned and the connections are gone. The plugins are still enabled for AIM / GMAIL / MSN in my case. So check this out... If I try in the connections screen to recreate one of the accounts that had already been established as soon as the account user and pwd field loses focus it disappears. If I create a connection that had not already existed it will work fine until I restart trillian. When it restarts the newer account will also be missing. If I delete the "C:\Users\sean\AppData\Roaming\Trillian" directory I can start all over again and work fine until I restart trillian where everything is missing again.
/s

[sharvell]

I have Vista with UAC turned off. After install and first run it works fine. I can setup accounts and login no probs. When I exit and restart all contacts are orphaned and the connections are gone. The plugins are still enabled for AIM / GMAIL / MSN in my case. So check this out... If I try in the connections screen to recreate one of the accounts that had already been established as soon as the account user and pwd field loses focus it disappears. If I create a connection that had not already existed it will work fine until I restart trillian. When it restarts the newer account will also be missing. If I delete the "C:\Users\sean\AppData\Roaming\Trillian" directory I can start all over again and work fine until I restart trillian where everything is missing again.
/s

I tried this also under Windows 2003 and XP and I have the same issue with build 69 so it must not be OS related.

[utherwayn]

Thanks sharvell =) good to see im not the only one. sort of. (good that its not just me .. bad that the bug is there heh)

[utherwayn]

Just set Trillian to run as administrator.

You might need to delete your whole Trillian user directory first and start over and install it as Admin (which is not the same as just using a Vista account with admin privileges) and then set it to run that way.

If this is a fresh build I don't think this should have happened, but it seems quirky on some systems still.

So you are saying I have to enabled the admin account, and use that admin account and run it with admin privileges to use astra. I don't know ... not to be rude but that seems like a Trillian problem not a "vista" problem. Theres plenty of posted procedures for dealing with the way you are supposed to store data in vistas file system hierarchy. Might want to check MSDN. Especially since at least pidgin has absolutely no problems under vista.

[DiamondNRG]

Sharvell, the reason the connection loses focus and disappears is because it already exists.

The only time I have seen them not show up was when there were problems with the Astra server and it didn't pull in the connections OR it took a really long time to do so.

So this means your files are being saved, its just not able to access them...

Have you tried waiting a long time to see if it pulls them in?

[DiamondNRG]

So you are saying I have to enabled the admin account, and use that admin account and run it with admin privileges to use astra. I don't know ... not to be rude but that seems like a Trillian problem not a "vista" problem. Theres plenty of posted procedures for dealing with the way you are supposed to store data in vistas file system hierarchy. Might want to check MSDN. Especially since at least pidgin has absolutely no problems under vista.

Nope, I was not saying you had to do that.

More just that you install it as admin and run it as admin until the problems with the virtual store folder are fixed: IE: This is alpha, it has bugs, doing this makes it usable!

[utherwayn]

Alright, will give that a go tonight.

Going to follow these steps:
1. Enable 'root' 'admin' (whatever you wanna call it) account.
2. Install trillian astra on that account after deleting the users directory.
3. Logout of admin/root account
4. Login as my regular account with admin privileges
5. Run trillian astra as administrator.
6. Configure trillian astra as necessary
7. If I need to readd my accounts (likely since users directory is toast) I will close and reload trilliian again to see if I can log back in as the accounts that I setup as per normal expected operation.

Please let me know if you can think of anything wrong with this procedure or have further suggestions.

[DiamondNRG]

Nope, you just right click the installer and pick "run as admin" you don't need to physically use that account.

Then after you install it and run it once, I would exit and right click the shortcut you use to launch astra and go into its properties and set it to always run astra as admin.

[utherwayn]

Ill try again but I believe I tried that the first time and it didnt work. Will post results when I get home and try tonight.

On a side note, thank you so much for your input DiamondNRG

[BSOD2600]

In case someone decides this is a real bug, I reported basically the same thing back in build 62: http://bugs.ceruleanstudios.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4357

[utherwayn]

Cant view the bug it asks me for a password?

[utherwayn]

Ran and installed as an adminsitrator, reinputed my account settings and same thing happened running both the install and the exe as administrator.

[xjjohnno]

It's actually bad coding practice on the side of both Trillian and Astra coders,writing anything other then the actual installed program to the program's root directory is a no no in programming and a folder for accounts,skins and any other modifyable area should be in the user folders eg documents and settings folders. Programs should no be needing to be run via admin accounts.

[utherwayn]

Yea ... I can understand its an alpha but this is sort of .. basic functionality that is lacking.

[xjjohnno]

If you are the only user of the pc you should set yourself as in your user account with admin rights, but I doubt that the problem is going to go away until the coders set up user account folders etc in the documents and settings/users folder section as mentioned already. The progrgram should not rely on writing such data to the root folder of the program and opens the door for malicious code if you have to run Astra as admin.

[utherwayn]

I already am.

[DiamondNRG]

It's actually bad coding practice on the side of both Trillian and Astra coders,writing anything other then the actual installed program to the program's root directory is a no no in programming and a folder for accounts,skins and any other modifyable area should be in the user folders eg documents and settings folders. Programs should no be needing to be run via admin accounts.

This is only temporarly suggested because of some bugs. I am sure they know how to write code. And skins and interfaces and plugins NEED to be in with the executable so they can be used by all users. All your modifying is user preference .ini files that point to certain plugins and skins, and that IS all in your user account folder. Not trying to sound crude, but it does not work the way you suggested at all.

[DiamondNRG]

If you are the only user of the pc you should set yourself as in your user account with admin rights, but I doubt that the problem is going to go away until the coders set up user account folders etc in the documents and settings/users folder section as mentioned already. The progrgram should not rely on writing such data to the root folder of the program and opens the door for malicious code if you have to run Astra as admin.

I missed this part ... it DOES create folders in the user folder. On both XP AND Vista. If yours are stored somewhere else, it is likely because you are upgrading from what was once a very old install.

[sharvell]

Sharvell, the reason the connection loses focus and disappears is because it already exists.
The only time I have seen them not show up was when there were problems with the Astra server and it didn't pull in the connections OR it took a really long time to do so.
So this means your files are being saved, its just not able to access them...
Have you tried waiting a long time to see if it pulls them in?

Yes, It does create the AIM-myusername.ini file. So it stores this on the trillian server as well and attempts to pull it down when I connect? Yes I have left this open for hours and it never loads. I have tried this on multiple machines multiple locations and multiple OS as admin with no firewall. Also as a side note... Under preferences and My astra contact the "loading profile..." appears and never goes away. /s

[DiamondNRG]

Sharvell... that is very odd, and sounds like a very old bug from about 12 builds ago... You could try to see if you can find it in bugzilla and reopen it.

The astra connection is obviously the bug you are having, because the rest of the connections can't get pulled down until that connects.

[utherwayn]

So am I to understand that the implication is that you think it's the same problem and that the astra account is not responding fast enough to redownload/initialize/whatever my existing account information?

[ottid888]

Hiya all,

i'm also experiencing the same problem when i updated to build 70. my astra contact connection setting keeps popping up whenever i run astra. and then i always uncheck the time stamp option in the chat menu, change my theme to platinum and a host of other preference make-over. whenever i restart astra, it reverts back to it's default blue theme, and doesn't remember any of my preferred settings. have tried deleting the trillian sub in the roaming directory, ran them both as admin with UAC on, and UAC off to no avail. i didn't had any problems like this prior to build 70.... must be really a bug here somewhere:confused:

[DiamondNRG]

Lawrence, is it trying to store your information in the Virtual Store folder?

Is Trillian exiting properly? Is it really silently crashing? Have you verified the process actually stops.

The connection settings popping up is just because you have that option checked. Now if you uncheck it and exit and they still pop up, well then thats probably just because it didn't save the preference just like the rest of the stuff.

[ottid888]

Lawrence, is it trying to store your information in the Virtual Store folder?

Is Trillian exiting properly? Is it really silently crashing? Have you verified the process actually stops.

The connection settings popping up is just because you have that option checked. Now if you uncheck it and exit and they still pop up, well then thats probably just because it didn't save the preference just like the rest of the stuff.

yep that's just the reason. it doesn't save the preference. it exits normally. no silent crashes. if i delete the trillian directory in the roaming sub dir, when i start trillian, it want's to create a new account.

i didn't had this problem prior to upgrading to build 70 from build 68. and i'm always using UAC in the off mode. is there anyway to tweak vista? i tried making the astra.ini and trillian.ini file as read only to no avail. when i check the trillian directory in the roaming subdir, it's just the global settings that are there, all of my settings are still in my original trillian directory in drive E. hope you can help. thanks. (woot)

[DiamondNRG]

yep that's just the reason. it doesn't save the preference. it exits normally. no silent crashes. if i delete the trillian directory in the roaming sub dir, when i start trillian, it want's to create a new account.

i didn't had this problem prior to upgrading to build 70 from build 68. and i'm always using UAC in the off mode. is there anyway to tweak vista? i tried making the astra.ini and trillian.ini file as read only to no avail. when i check the trillian directory in the roaming subdir, it's just the global settings that are there, all of my settings are still in my original trillian directory in drive E. hope you can help. thanks. (woot)

So you are trying to run it on drive E? But it doesn't save your user directory where you need it to be? Why not just change astra.ini and trillian.ini and move your user directory. I dont see why it would change once you have it working there.

[ottid888]

So you are trying to run it on drive E? But it doesn't save your user directory where you need it to be? Why not just change astra.ini and trillian.ini and move your user directory. I dont see why it would change once you have it working there.

What do you mean? you want me to move my astra.ini and trillian.ini to the roaming sub dir? where? in the global users?:confused:

[DiamondNRG]

Lawrence, I think I will try to help you personally via IM tonight or tomorrow if you have time. I really think we can figure it out.

[ottid888]

Lawrence, I think I will try to help you personally via IM tonight or tomorrow if you have time. I really think we can figure it out.

thanks will be on line. remember we have a +8 hour time diff here. I-)

[regeczi]

Just curious if someone discovered a workaround for this issue. I have the same problem with build 73: Trillian refuses to save my changes to the contact list (such as renaming a user). Also running Windows Vista...

[Thaek]

I got the same problem. After upgrading from 71 to 75 I lost all connections. I'm unable to add a new connection, it just doesn't show up on the Identities and Connections screen. Tried running it with administrator privileges, reinstalling etc... Nothing works. Now I'm completely f*cked, because I haven't made a backup before upgrading.

Running:
Windows Vista SP1

[sd6310a]

I got the same problem. After upgrading from 71 to 75 I lost all connections. I'm unable to add a new connection, it just doesn't show up on the Identities and Connections screen. Tried running it with administrator privileges, reinstalling etc... Nothing works. Now I'm completely f*cked, because I haven't made a backup before upgrading.

Running:
Windows Vista SP1

Same problem for me, this morning.

[PoooMukkel]

Isn't this the same problem thats written here?

http://forums.ceruleanstudios.com/showthread.php?t=90921

Why another thread?? May be we should discuss only in one thread!

[eatonjb]

ok.. I got the same issue.

when I remove the AIM-aimname.ini or any other .ini file that is about the IM that I am using, and then recreate it, all is good.. but i have to do it ever time I load trillian..

is there a fix yet..

BTW installed as a admin, running as an admin on Windows XP

[alextheblade]

do you have it set to autologin? if so try changing it to not auto login,

goto connection manager, uncheck checkbox under "My Trillian Astra Account" to login automatically.

edit: It crashed a few times after I did that but eventually worked.

[eatonjb]

tried that too.. same problem..

[alextheblade]

tried that too.. same problem..

no way, it should work. Does the startup screen show up, and you have to click on your identity, and then it logs in? If not then autologin is not disabled.

[eatonjb]

yea.. I open Trillian , the screen with my icon shows up, i hit it, and then it loads trillian. After that neither MSN or AIM ar still there, I have to add them, but only after i remove the ini files

[alextheblade]

but then after you restart trillian does it work or do they disappear again?

and just to make sure we're talking about the same thing you uncheck this box right? (screenshot)

[eatonjb]

yup.. thats it.. . the box is NOT checked..

[alextheblade]

yup.. thats it.. . the box is NOT checked..

:'( I was sure that was it. One last thing make sure the plugins for the different services are enabled in the plugins page.

[eatonjb]

here's another thing,

if i pull down "Trillian" -> then select "My Astra Profile"

I get a screen that sits and says, "Loading Profile" and nothing happens. just somethjing i noticed. could be related?

[eatonjb]

yea.. all plugs ins are checked.

[ai212983]

same here. admin account on windowsXP sp2

moreover i can't add same connections somewhy. has it something to do with admin rights?

[DiamondNRG]

same here. admin account on windowsXP sp2

moreover i can't add same connections somewhy. has it something to do with admin rights?

Likely because they are already there in the connection .ini files.

[pirate16]

It does the same thing for me i add a group and stuff and it does not remember anything!

[Michlo]

Same here.

I'm sick of this problem. It isn't just cosmetic preferences that aren't saved but privacy options. I've had to completely remove my ICQ account because of this.

I am seriously considering finally reverting to my Trillian Pro. I know it is Alpha but as someone already pointed out, this is BASIC functionality.

Where is the official response / fix / work-around / something?

Cheers.