File transfer problems with Astra bld 118

[FreedomDwarf]

I am still having a problem with the file transfers in Astra - to the extent that if I know I need that facility I have to switch to the native app to do it.

I only use WLM, Y! and AIM for my chat, never use Facebook or IRC or anything much else really. But I do use pretty much most of the facilities that the native apps have to offer.

Someone else brought this problem up before but they were only dealing with MSN file transfer (Gamer_R3D on 13 Aug 2009, 09:26 PM) and the following comments seemed to indicate it was being worked on for 4.1.

My problem is similar for all my file transfers thru Y!, MSN/WLM and AIM - all very similar in behaviour and extremely s-l-o-w. I end up having to manually close the file transfer windows via the red "X" and it often says 100% but transfer still active (not completed).
But thats on sending files - I can't receive any files whatsoever! I get the file request, I accept it and it always (eventually) times out with "Error in Transfer" and no other info to help me. :confused: It doesn't matter if its a short file or a long one - Zilch!
At first I put it down to the other side running an old version of the native app or something but over a period of several months it is obvious that this is an Astra problem at my end as it always works first time with the native apps - and an awful lot faster!!

The same is with the wecam - I have tried both of mine (M$ Livecam VX1000 & Mikomi) and it makes no difference which one I use. In the native apps I can accept a webcam request and it usually works first time. In Astra, I don't even GET a webcam request to accept! So I often get irate friends yelling at me to accept the cam request but I never get one and have to switch to the native app. I sometimes get one for Yahoo but it never seems to work.

I have been with Trilly since v2 and loved v3.1 but these niggling problems that never seem to get fixed properly is getting a little annoying now and it's been going on for many years. It didn't work properly in v2 or v3.0, worked briefly in 3.1 when Yahoo and MSN were creeping in at v5 & v6 but not worked properly since the natives moved on and now it's not working properly in Astra.


I have a twin processor 1GHz P3, 4GB Ram, XP Pro SP3 + updates.
Running latest Astra build 118.

[agnostic-stigma]

File transfers have been an issue for alot of people for a long time now (me being one of those people). If you look at the change log you'll see it has nothing to do with file transfers. Supposedly in 4.1 WLM/MSN file transfer is going to get an overhaul, lets hope the devs take a closer look at the other mediums as well. :)

[bess]

There is a problem in mirk. If to close a chat window at new occurrence of a window all nickname in the right part of a window disappear. Occurrence nickname is possible only after reload mirk

[agnostic-stigma]

Sorry bess but the title of this thread is: File transfer problems with Astra bld 118.
You might want to search for a mirc thread.

[DiamondNRG]

File transfers through MSN do not really work in 4.0 .. no comments about it are necessary until they fix it for 4.1

The same is true with webcam about aim and msn, Astra does not have those features, so obviously they are not going to work. It will only work on the Astra and Yahoo mediums.

File transfers through AIM and Yahoo work just perfect here and have for most of the versions I have used in the last 9 years. It sounds like your network setup isn't playing nicely with Trillian's file transfers.

[Okami]

I remember I was having file transfer issues on TrillyPro before I got the Astra 117. Transfers from MSN worked perfectly, but now that I am on 118, file transfers are no longer working. =/ What's up with that? (I have not tried file transfer on any other medium, AIM or Y!, yet)

[FreedomDwarf]

Never mind.... we'll all have to wait for 4.1 when it's finally realeased for us to play with. I-)

[CWM480]

File transfers through MSN do not really work in 4.0 .. no comments about it are necessary until they fix it for 4.1

The same is true with webcam about aim and msn, Astra does not have those features, so obviously they are not going to work. It will only work on the Astra and Yahoo mediums.

File transfers through AIM and Yahoo work just perfect here and have for most of the versions I have used in the last 9 years. It sounds like your network setup isn't playing nicely with Trillian's file transfers.

What do you mean that they " DONT WORK" ?

earlier, I just sent a file to my friend in Mississippi though MSN

Only problem I have is that once the file trans. is though, the Status window for the file I just sent him doesn't close, I have to hit cancel

[DiamondNRG]

I said "do not really work" ... I mean they are tempermental, slow and don't finish properly.

I doubt the file transfer you sent was FAST... and it also didn't close...

Just plain buggy... but this fix is no longer coming in 4.1 ... so hopefully 4.2.

EDIT: Text in red is WRONG AND INCORRECT. I appologize ... apparently it is just coming "later during 4.1".

[d2freak]

Just plain buggy... but this fix is no longer coming in 4.1 ... so hopefully 4.2.
Thats the worst thing i heard all month... Are you sure about this? :( Becouse that means that I (very very sadly) will have to look for another msn client...

I was even planning on going "pro" for astra becouse its so great to use but I cannot live without this feature...especially since if its going to be in 4.2 then its going to take many years, when with all other clients, it is working already, at this day :(

this is incredibly sad news and I had higher hopes for this "trillian astra", only to find it lacks (and will do for years to come) the most basics functions. I have not even been able to reccomend it to peoples yet beocuse of this function, and now apperently, i can never, becouse when 4.2 arrives, the rest of the IM clients will allow you to type with your mind, making keyboard redundant, and that feature isnt due until trillian 4.3 :)

on a more serious note... I cannot understand how this company will survive this. Im not cheap and I can support a good thing and I do wish to support them badly, but with this kind of service (which i did not expect, being new to this project) then I cannot see any reason :(

DiamondNRG can you please confirm that you are sure about this? :(

[DiamondNRG]

Hey, sorry I was wrong... apparently its coming LATER during 4.1 ... but I still don't know when that means. Sorry about that, I had thought I found all the spots that I wrote that, I had misunderstood something that was said to me.

Hopefully you understand there are a lot of other requests and bugs that are just as important to other users though too.

As far as the reason the fix isn't coming just yet, it apparently still isn't ready and Scott is working on it, but they don't want the rest of the team sitting around waiting on him for 4.1 ... they would rather get started with what they have and then when he has the MSN overhaul finished, swap out the msn plugin and keep rolling with other 4.1 changes.

[FreedomDwarf]

I hate to say this and many others (myself included) have already said this before.... Why keep teasing us with wizzard future updates and wizzo integration with Win7 and flashy gizmos when they can't even get the real basics there for us to use??? :confused:

Surely it is far more important to get file transfers and the other chat aspects (like webcams etc) to work PROPERLY than the other fancy window dressing frivolities????
Personally, I'd sooner be able to do a file transfer and webcam chat than worry about some minor issue with window transparency under Win7 or other non-essential stuff! Who gives a monkeys about integration with Facebook etc when I can't even have a video chat or exchange files/photos with my friends on Yahoo and MSN??

This has been the major bane and complaint with the Trillian dev guys for many years!! :mad:
They really do produce some magic stuff but the basics seem to lag well behind and that is what lets Trillian down very much in the marketplace and always has done in the past. If it wasn't for these major issues, Trillian would wipe the floor with everything else out there and they would be world leaders.

All the others place importance on webcam and chat - after all, isn't that what it's main function is all about??
Any other bells and whistles and frivolous fancy bits are just nice added extras.
It's no good having a fancy racing car with brilliant paintwork and the best driver in the world if the engine won't start!!

So come on guys - get the real stuff working FIRST and worry about the other bits later please!!
(angel)

[d2freak]

Hey, sorry I was wrong... apparently its coming LATER during 4.1 ... but I still don't know when that means. Sorry about that, I had thought I found all the spots that I wrote that, I had misunderstood something that was said to me.

Hopefully you understand there are a lot of other requests and bugs that are just as important to other users though too.

As far as the reason the fix isn't coming just yet, it apparently still isn't ready and Scott is working on it, but they don't want the rest of the team sitting around waiting on him for 4.1 ... they would rather get started with what they have and then when he has the MSN overhaul finished, swap out the msn plugin and keep rolling with other 4.1 changes.

Im sorry DiamondNRG but I will have to agree with FreedomDwarf on this.

He really summed it all up very nicely. One cannot be adding facebook support etc when such *much* more important things needs to be fixed, for example the file transfers.

It has no logic behind. Not even for a company becouse how can they gain subscribers when they do not support them, or listen to their wishes, and on top of that, only releases a new version every few years? When even free open source software exists that gives much better support?

The whole thing is laughable and makes this company not seem serious. I must also say that I am new to trillian as a whole, and I were looking for a proffessional replacement for the ad filled official clients. I was thinking about going free software maybe - pidgin etc etc. But finally found trillian. A nice client, with no ads but instead a subscription, run by a proffesional company. The first thing i thought, of course, was that it would be a quality, highly maintained client. The main thing free software lacks.

Instead I find that it lacks some very basic things, and I thought thats OK becouse they will update it. Its not until theese news that i realize that this client is going nowhere.

You say that there are other things that others users wish for? Which users wanted facebook support and email handling much more than being able to send or recieve files?? I cannot fathom this. I have seen your posts around this forum and I cannot understand why you keep supporting the decisions theese guys make.

Please tell me... if the quality is actually lower than free sotware (functions not working properly) and the release time is actually *slower* than a free software...then what is the point of supporting a company then?

Oh and what you said about its perhaps going to be in the 4.1 phase, doesnt really improve the situation becouse we likely still are speaking in years here. (I even crack a lil smile when writing that...its so hilaroius and unacceptable at the same time)

[FreedomDwarf]

I didn't really want to rant so much but it really is about time the guys at Curelean Studios took heed!!

I have been a staunch user and supporter of Trillian since version 2 came out.
As an APP, it's brilliant and light-years ahead of the competition - if only it WORKED!!!

Version 2 had file transfer and webcam problems and we were promised it would be fixed in version 3. It sort-of worked for a couple of months then the native apps had a newer release (Yahoo to v6 and MSN to v5) and most of the webcams stopped working. Shortly after some minor releases of the native apps most of the file transfers stopped working and a good deal of the chat features in Trillian were useless apart from plain text chat. So for the most part, you could text chat with trillian but that is all it offered while the rest of the world was streaking past us. :'(
Here we are a few years later and a brand new "re-written from the ground up" version of Trillian that promised to live up to it's very pretty interface and we are STILL stuck with the same old problems that have run on and on and on from version 2.

It seems the dev guys have lost their direction somewhere!
So what IS Trillian exactly?? I always thought it was a multi-chat platform. It was supposed to roll up all your MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Jabber/IRC stuff all into a single app plus "a whole lot more features with a standard interface and ease of use".
Well it's standard alright - NONE of the main features of a chat client works properly but it'll look very pretty on your desktop and add more non-functioning interfaces during development.

WOW!!! Just what we all didn't want!
I've been a software programmer and a project leader for more than 10 years in my life and the ONE thing that managers and clients alike always insist on - working functionality that meets the goals!
So what has happened to the goals of Trillian??
It looks like somebody has moved the goal-posts from making Trillian to be "the best multi-chat app on the market" to "the prettiest app on the market whether it works or not" :(
Seems like there's too much emphasis on adding new bits (which still don't work) and making it look pretty than getting the main bits fixed and working properly.

@DiamondNRG - we all appreciate that they are doing their best and I applaud you for giving us info that doesn't seem to be published in the public blogs.
But surely even you must admit that they've let us down again and very badly.

Cerulean Studios promised us lot out here that Astra would be re-written from scratch from the bottom up to be a super-slick and very neat Trillian.... so how come they've re-written the same mistakes and non-working bits like the file transfers and webcams???
The text works and it looks very pretty - but that's about it.

I really thought Astra would be different from previous releases of Trillian and held out for it but it looks like my patience has worn soooo thin now that it's threatening to break.
I'm rapidly losing faith in Trillian despite all the promises because they just aren't keeping to what they are promising.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.
We had the tantrums of Trillian users all the way through version 2, then version 3.0 and we were all promised it would be fixed (yet again??) in v3.1.... and now the flagship is performing no better at all - it looks better but that's all I can say about it.

As it stands, I now use Astra to keep me signed-in to all my accounts and when I want to chat to someone or answer their call, I switch to the native app because Trillian can't cut the mustard any more - it's more like stale porridge... nice to look at but dare not eat it!!

When it's working I'll pay for it.


No good looking pretty if it don't do what it's supposed to do!!

[d2freak]

And I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

Indeed you are not. But I think the bug forum is not the appropriate place for such a talk. But this surely needs to be brought to a serious discussion, and hopefully brought to light to the developers becouse i seriously love this client. Can someone please move this into the appropriate forum section so that it can be discussed?

[FreedomDwarf]

It's a complaint about File Transfers and Webcam bugs that's been in existence since v2 and never really been addressed by Cerulean Studios.
I think we have a right to voice our discontent about a problem that must be about 6 years or more old and not been fixed properly through many 'bug fixes' during the course of these long years of empty promises.

I love Trillian to bits and have done so for many many years - it's just that this problem is still prevalent in the so-called "re-designed and re-written from scratch from the bottom up" version they dubbed "Astra".
I made the mad and silly assumption that Astra being redesigned and written from scratch might have cured a lot of the inherent bugs and glitches you would associate with trying to re-vamp old and buggy code. I've been in that situation many times in my life and it's crazy and virtually unworkable. With a clean sheet of paper and a redesign I really thought we might crack it this time!
I just can't believe they've re-written the same mistake in their code for Astra!!

So these rants are in the right place - bug fixes that desperately need doing for Astra.

[d2freak]

I really hate to be a drag about this... but i just read the blog and to my amazement 4.1 is now public beta, without file transfers or webcam working...

i thought they were gonna be added but i also read the comments and found out that this is indeed not the case. So DiamondNRG you were right in that first statement of yours after all.

on a very bright side, this release came very fast, so likely we no longer speak in "years" :) so this may not be the disaster it looks like at first...

sooo... have anyone any word on file transfers/webcam? Diamond? Anyone?

any time remaining for it? its gonna be in 4.2? and when is 4.2 due then? or is it gonna come as an update for 4.1? (at least file transfers are not really "added features", its more bugfix anyway)

i try stay positive meanwhile, as 4.1 looks nice (but every single person i had told about this client switched to another one after that blog post)

[FreedomDwarf]

It's extremely hard to stay positive when you see the history of this particular set of bugs in very basic functionality,
....... just have a glance at what you see at the bottom of this thread alone -

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These very basic problems go way back to March 2002!!!
Ah well.... it's only been 7 and a half years in the bug list - got plenty of time to fix it yet!! (LMAO)

Seriously tho - I think this has gone on long enough and needs to be thrown at the developers post haste...... Diamond????

[smw]

Development is a fluid process - one of the reasons we don't give exact dates is because we don't want folks to be let down when schedules change. In this case, although work on the MSN engine was started for the 4.1 branch, we decided to push it off (but not stop it) until it was 100% completed rather than introduce a halfway-complete version into 4.1. In this case, we felt 4.1 offered enough benefits without MSN to warrant the upgrade while we continued to work on MSN and other things for 4.2 and beyond.

Speeding up and improving MSN file transfers is important to us and we continue to work on it as an active development item. When it's ready for testing you'll hear about it on our blog, and our goal is to improve the wait time between releases across the board as we've done with 4.0 -> 4.1.

- Scott

[d2freak]

Development is a fluid process - one of the reasons we don't give exact dates is because we don't want folks to be let down when schedules change. In this case, although work on the MSN engine was started for the 4.1 branch, we decided to push it off (but not stop it) until it was 100% completed rather than introduce a halfway-complete version into 4.1. In this case, we felt 4.1 offered enough benefits without MSN to warrant the upgrade while we continued to work on MSN and other things for 4.2 and beyond.

Speeding up and improving MSN file transfers is important to us and we continue to work on it as an active development item. When it's ready for testing you'll hear about it on our blog, and our goal is to improve the wait time between releases across the board as we've done with 4.0 -> 4.1.

- Scott

Thank you for the information Scott. Indeed the release came fast.

If I were to put some constructive ideas here tho it would be that all you developers just sat down, in a ring, around a round table, and then looked eachother deep in the eyes and then put your developer masterminds together and just sat there with no eating. No sleeping. Not even speaking unless it was constructive, until the damn MSN plugin is working (LMAO)

Okey but seriously. Thanks so much for the hard work you are putting into this :)

[DiamondNRG]

Thank you for the information Scott. Indeed the release came fast.

If I were to put some constructive ideas here tho it would be that all you developers just sat down, in a ring, around a round table, and then looked eachother deep in the eyes and then put your developer masterminds together and just sat there with no eating. No sleeping. Not even speaking unless it was constructive, until the damn MSN plugin is working (LMAO)

Okey but seriously. Thanks so much for the hard work you are putting into this :)

You have to remember they all have rolls... As far as I know the MSN overhaul is like 99% Scott's job... Kevin primarily works on the UI, and so forth (just like KingIR works on Facebook and IRC and why those got added and updated even while the MSN overhaul didn't happen yet)... I'm sure Scott works on it every day!

[d2freak]

You have to remember they all have rolls... As far as I know the MSN overhaul is like 99% Scott's job... Kevin primarily works on the UI, and so forth (just like KingIR works on Facebook and IRC and why those got added and updated even while the MSN overhaul didn't happen yet)... I'm sure Scott works on it every day!

I understand this of course. But still, if I had a magic wand id turn their office into a tropical island, scott in a resting chair with a laptop (programming like crazy) and the rest of the developers would skip their roles to feed him fruit and put shade on him with big palm leaves and bringing him stuff so that he does not have to even get out of the chair. Anything to make the development faster on this (LMAO)

Thats how important it is. Maybe you do not use MSN Diamond? But I do and let me tell you, I tried spread Trillian to many friends and such, as it really is better you know. But the usefullness of file transfers is just on such a gigantic scope, it cannot be compared to *any* other feature. Even if trillian had 100 more features on msn protocol, for free users even, and yet the transfers did not work. Id still not be able to convince anyone to switch to it.

Well some did switch, and liked it (kinda hard not too), but every single one was forced to switch back now after the announcement that transfers wont be working in 4.1

Id like to say that file transfers it is much more important for Trillian in general (as webcam support is not featured in any unoffcial client really as far as I know)

I can bet that they loose *TONS* of users from the function not working. And I, being the "clean computer freak" that I am, am not comfortable hopping between clients for different purposes and so I dont know how much longer I will be able to hold out with this :S

Maybe they should just fix the transfers, first hand, couse I dont know much else that would require a "MSN overhaul"? (if you do then please enlighten me)

[DiamondNRG]

I just did an MSN file transfer of 17.6MB and it worked just fine. So perhaps they aren't completely busted, and just have *some issues* ?

I know the overhaul is required for the audio/video stuff...

The major issue I guess would just be that MSN file transfers are slow...and this I believe is due to it using an old MSNP protocol version, which is why the overhaul would help...

[big_malletman]

Why do IM protocols need to over complicate file transfers in the first place? It should be simple... IP, Port, TCP Socket, file, peer to peer... bam... done. Anything beyond that is probably pointless and just slowing the whole process down.
I get mad at the IM protocols about file transfers not working, not Cerulean.

[d2freak]

I just did an MSN file transfer of 17.6MB and it worked just fine. So perhaps they aren't completely busted, and just have *some issues* ?

I know the overhaul is required for the audio/video stuff...

The major issue I guess would just be that MSN file transfers are slow...and this I believe is due to it using an old MSNP protocol version, which is why the overhaul would help...
Yes they can transfer and complete fine, for me and everyone who complained also. Problem is the (already known) issue that the transfer window wont close and that the speed is unacceptably slow, for me 3kb/s.

Sure I can complete transfers on this speed and I have also done so, god knows. But I live in sweden so we are spoiled by everything on the internet going fast :) and I myself have a 100mbit line and many in sweden have at least 10mbit download ny now. and so 3kb/s is sorta killing everyone.



Why do IM protocols need to over complicate file transfers in the first place? It should be simple... IP, Port, TCP Socket, file, peer to peer... bam... done. Anything beyond that is probably pointless and just slowing the whole process down.
I get mad at the IM protocols about file transfers not working, not Cerulean.


Indeed this is annoying. But there is a simple reason why it is so.

The IM companies want as many users as possible. This means all kinds of "computer skilled/unskilled" peoples which is why all mainstream IM clients tries to be as user friendly as possible. And of course this also means that a user should be able to send a file to whoever he wishes, without having to configure a router, open ports, check firewalls and all that.

That is why the MSN server is in between the transfer, to make the transfer possible at the most times, to the novice users also.
The fact that microsoft provides theese costly severs as a middle hand is also a glaring proof that working file transfers are a must for the clients popularity. Scotty, you reading this? :)

The official live messenger client experimented with direct client-client transfers to improve the speed once i remember, it could be checked in the preferences. Some versions later however the option was greyed out in the preferences window and I dont think it came back. But cant be sure couse I gave up on the official client long ago.

There is however clients that utilize this feature, aMSN being one (I wrote an idea in the astra chat forum here: http://forums.ceruleanstudios.com/showthread.php?t=97578) and what it does is it tries to establish a direct connection for the transfer at first, which will work on any client that supports it and have it enabled, (this includes some versions of official live messenger also) and if it fails to establish one, it simply falls back to route through the MSN server like the official client does. The "normal" way.

If trillian were to bring such functionallity, it would be well worth this wait :)